Author Topic: Some thoughts from another Noob.  (Read 1762 times)

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lutris

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Some thoughts from another Noob.
« on: November 28, 2014, 04:45:30 PM »
I love what I've read around the forums here, but I haven't -really- been on the forums until today so I haven't been keeping up with all the posts since alpha (lol).. tofufox's post for instance... So I will surely be repeating a lot of what other people may have already said (lets call it reinforcement of ideas), here's my general feedback so far.

Graphics: Great! Love the artwork, especially the cards and the combat animations. The king, I think, could use some more animations.. and voice acting with him would help a lot. Having him face the player would also be nice?
One more thing, and I think this rather important is the camera of the game. It was probably intentional, though I'm not sure why, but I would love to be able to see the whole board at once, by zooming out or minimap, so I can keep track of every character in relation to the others without having to rely strictly on my memory.

Gameplay: Sana seems particularly hard at this point in time. I've been getting better with her, but the only viable magic route appears to be get the best combat items you can and then buff away, because there's little potential value otherwise.
One of my assumed benefits of being a spell caster (since combat values for sana are so low) was to be able to strike from a distance but right now it seems impossible to strike from afar.. with things like storms being limited to mountains,( which I personally avoid most of the time, and it seems other players do as well.) There's almost no potential here.
Also the utility of magic, like scouting and peril vision (which I can't figure out enough to make them effective) is not unique as you can also get those things through trickery cards, and money has more versatility (being able to buy items AND trickery cards rather than just magic ones), which certainly discourages me from wanting to play the lovely bear lady.
 I can see the bonus to being a magic user in that your resource for casting replenishes whether or not you have a city (or two or three). But gold doesn't seem to be a huge problem at this stage in development.

The dice system is confusing to me. Why are some dice rerolled? Why do others not get rerolled? Why do swords sometimes get placed on the defensive side of the board with the shields? But...I do love the physics of the dice.

Card placement:
Cards are hard to place effectively. Between the AI's fast decision making capabilities, no visual range indication, and a really precise unmarked area to do so (especially with the screen moving around), it's really hard to place perils when it is not your turn. (this also makes magic users less appealing).
Highlighting hexes that you are allowed to place a card on would help, and/or some visual range indication would as well. Enlarging the burn area before/in combat/with perils would help.
(Again the cards are beautiful!)

Winning the game:
Playing with the AI, prestige seems to be the only way to go. I haven't played thane much, and when he's buffed and the banes are buffed I cannot even imagine fighting them as pretty much any of the other characters... So combat victory seems out of the question. Especially with the perils into the castle being so difficult. (burning 3 cards to match 3 of the sigils but ending up with only 1 die to roll to get the last symbol like 2 or three times in the last turn or two of the game is super frustrating)
I suppose spirit stones could be a way to go as well, but something about them.. maybe that it's so hard to tell how many you have vs. how many other people have... but they seem unappealing.


Gameplay modes:
 I know this suggestion has been rebuffed, but I would like to make it again. Hotseat. I think this game would benefit so much, so. much. so! much! From having a hotseat option.
And the difficulty of placing cards on other peoples turns/making the decision that you even want to/trying to not get wrapped up watching what they're doing... only furthers my cause.
It is a rare occasion that I want to equip an item/look at my character page during another persons turn as well. There's no time limit on turns (nor do I want there to be) so I can take as much time as I need then. Also, seeing what is happening around the world of Armello is too important, from a purely fun perspective and a strategic one.

Great work so far! Can't wait for the bandit clan and the final build!

Ty Carey

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« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2014, 09:29:26 PM »
Great post Lutris! You've covered many valid points and we'll be addressing most of them in the lead over the following months. You can expect a forward facing and menacingly growling King, a fuller and more direct set of spell cards for Sana, highlighting tile indicators and more! Hot seat isn't on our schedule just yet. - maybe one day!

lutris

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Re: Some thoughts from another Noob.
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2014, 02:20:05 AM »
Thanks for the quick reply. Ya'll are great :D

Alvorn

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Re: Some thoughts from another Noob.
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 05:08:08 PM »
I love what I've read around the forums here, but I haven't -really- been on the forums until today so I haven't been keeping up with all the posts since alpha (lol).. tofufox's post for instance... So I will surely be repeating a lot of what other people may have already said (lets call it reinforcement of ideas), here's my general feedback so far.
Welcome to the Forums :) Glad you could make it :D

Graphics: Great! Love the artwork, especially the cards and the combat animations. The king, I think, could use some more animations.. and voice acting with him would help a lot. Having him face the player would also be nice?
One more thing, and I think this rather important is the camera of the game. It was probably intentional, though I'm not sure why, but I would love to be able to see the whole board at once, by zooming out or minimap, so I can keep track of every character in relation to the others without having to rely strictly on my memory.
You can Zoom the camera out (and In for that matter), but yes you can't see the whole board at once. When zoomed the whole way out it doesn't take to long to find other characters, but yes an indication of where they are (except when stealth of course) would be great, like an arrow on the side of screen pointing to where they are.


Gameplay: Sana seems particularly hard at this point in time. I've been getting better with her, but the only viable magic route appears to be get the best combat items you can and then buff away, because there's little potential value otherwise.

Lots more spell cards to come ! Which should help out poor old Sana.

One of my assumed benefits of being a spell caster (since combat values for sana are so low) was to be able to strike from a distance but right now it seems impossible to strike from afar.. with things like storms being limited to mountains,( which I personally avoid most of the time, and it seems other players do as well.) There's almost no potential here.

Spell range is now ( or shortly will be) based upon a charters Magic stat. Im looking forward to seeing how this works with the WarCaster Bear when he's finally added in the game.


Also the utility of magic, like scouting and peril vision (which I can't figure out enough to make them effective)

Scouting and Peril Vision aren't quite working yet. Look out for them in future builds.

is not unique as you can also get those things through trickery cards, and money has more versatility (being able to buy items AND trickery cards rather than just magic ones), which certainly discourages me from wanting to play the lovely bear lady.
I actually thought this was a good thing. As it means multiple styles of play (magic heavy, gold heavy) still allow each Hero access to these perks.

I can see the bonus to being a magic user in that your resource for casting replenishes whether or not you have a city (or two or three). But gold doesn't seem to be a huge problem at this stage in development.

The dice system is confusing to me. Why are some dice rerolled? Why do others not get rerolled? Why do swords sometimes get placed on the defensive side of the board with the shields? But...I do love the physics of the dice.

Check out the quick start guide which can be found here. http://leagueofgeeks.com/forums/index.php?topic=472.0

If a die rolls a Wyld  (the one with the Tree symbol) it will count as a successful attack and then re-roll allowing you a chance to get another attack in. It will keep doing this as long as Wyld symbol is rolled. this is referred to as exploding dice.
If you have skill all successful attacks (swords) are turned into Shields.
 
Card placement:
Cards are hard to place effectively. Between the AI's fast decision making capabilities, no visual range indication, and a really precise unmarked area to do so (especially with the screen moving around), it's really hard to place perils when it is not your turn. (this also makes magic users less appealing).
This common feedback and LoG have said they are working on improving this aspect of the game. Look out for it in future builds.
 
Highlighting hexes that you are allowed to place a card on would help, and/or some visual range indication would as well. Enlarging the burn area before/in combat/with perils would help.
(Again the cards are beautiful!)
Cool idea.
Winning the game:
Playing with the AI, prestige seems to be the only way to go. I haven't played thane much, and when he's buffed and the banes are buffed I cannot even imagine fighting them as pretty much any of the other characters... So combat victory seems out of the question. Especially with the perils into the castle being so difficult. (burning 3 cards to match 3 of the sigils but ending up with only 1 die to roll to get the last symbol like 2 or three times in the last turn or two of the game is super frustrating)
I suppose spirit stones could be a way to go as well, but something about them.. maybe that it's so hard to tell how many you have vs. how many other people have... but they seem unappealing.
There are heaps of other threads on the forums which touch on this topic. I suggest you have a browse around and join in on some of the other discussions :) Your input would be most welcome.

lutris

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Re: Some thoughts from another Noob.
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2014, 04:43:36 PM »
Thanks Alvorn. I'll try and catch up on some of the more recent discussions perhaps. And great feedback from you too.

Snacuum

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Re: Some thoughts from another Noob.
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2014, 04:56:31 PM »
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The king, I think, could use some more animations.. and voice acting with him would help a lot. Having him face the player would also be nice?

I agree that the King needs a stronger presence. Personally I think he should roar or make some other kind of sound at specific intervals such as quarters or exact half-time of the match.

Alvorn

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Re: Some thoughts from another Noob.
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2014, 02:45:04 PM »
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The king, I think, could use some more animations.. and voice acting with him would help a lot. Having him face the player would also be nice?

I agree that the King needs a stronger presence. Personally I think he should roar or make some other kind of sound at specific intervals such as quarters or exact half-time of the match.

Thats a really good point. The King at the moment is just some old grumpy dude that hides in his castle, occasionally making your life hell with one of his silly decrees. He is however meant to be the central villain of the game. Having his presence felt in other ways such as the occasional roar would be great. It would help impart an overall sense of him being there. Watching everything.

Perhaps you could implement random King rewards. Say you have a really decisive victory over an opponent and smash them into the ground, the King could turn around and applaud (maybe not actually animated this but that would be cool to) and then hand you bonus gold or prestige.

You could go take a leaf out of Mortal Combat's book (I really never thought I would say that in regards to Armello) and have the king provide commentary every now and then through out the game "Flawless Victory", "Finish him".

You could have King Quests (wasn't that such an awesome game back in the day). The King drops perils all over the place, why can't he occasionally drop a really SWEET quest with SWEET loot as well, which ALL Heroes can get... Add an extra element to the game, do I drop everything and race for the Kings Quest or do I ignore it and stick with my current plan.
He would't need to drop a quest every game, but it would be awesome if it happened sometimes (like with the Druids encounters).

All of these suggestion would help cement the King into the game as living presence. A menacing overlord who watches and sees everything and can change your fait with a swish of his hand. I think this can only be a good thing :)

8BitProxy

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Re: Some thoughts from another Noob.
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2014, 09:32:40 PM »
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The king, I think, could use some more animations.. and voice acting with him would help a lot. Having him face the player would also be nice?

I agree that the King needs a stronger presence. Personally I think he should roar or make some other kind of sound at specific intervals such as quarters or exact half-time of the match.

Thats a really good point. The King at the moment is just some old grumpy dude that hides in his castle, occasionally making your life hell with one of his silly decrees. He is however meant to be the central villain of the game. Having his presence felt in other ways such as the occasional roar would be great. It would help impart an overall sense of him being there. Watching everything.

Perhaps you could implement random King rewards. Say you have a really decisive victory over an opponent and smash them into the ground, the King could turn around and applaud (maybe not actually animated this but that would be cool to) and then hand you bonus gold or prestige.

You could go take a leaf out of Mortal Combat's book (I really never thought I would say that in regards to Armello) and have the king provide commentary every now and then through out the game "Flawless Victory", "Finish him".

You could have King Quests (wasn't that such an awesome game back in the day). The King drops perils all over the place, why can't he occasionally drop a really SWEET quest with SWEET loot as well, which ALL Heroes can get... Add an extra element to the game, do I drop everything and race for the Kings Quest or do I ignore it and stick with my current plan.
He would't need to drop a quest every game, but it would be awesome if it happened sometimes (like with the Druids encounters).

All of these suggestion would help cement the King into the game as living presence. A menacing overlord who watches and sees everything and can change your fait with a swish of his hand. I think this can only be a good thing :)

These are really great ideas Alvorn!
The kings quests really drew my attention! Having a tonne of players jump to a point on the board is just like poking the bear! Bring it on LoG!

Snacuum

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Re: Some thoughts from another Noob.
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2014, 10:19:23 PM »
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The King drops perils all over the place,

On that note, I'd love to see Perils only the King can place. It'll make his perils a lot less RNG looking and way more attractive/scary in risk/reward factor.