Author Topic: can someone explain a few things or tell me where to read about it?  (Read 4407 times)

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Xiander

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Re: can someone explain a few things or tell me where to read about it?
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2014, 04:32:00 AM »
Let me try to answer your questions, with some strategic advice.


If I want to go for the Prestige victory, I should perform "Heroic deeds such as succeeding quests  or defeating opponents and banes." Fine, I can wander around the map and do that, though trying to gather it through dungeons and quests seems a lot more productive than combat if you're anyone other than Thane. But it's hard to plot against the other heroes when you can't tell where their quest tiles are. Several times I've played where I have a clear prestige lead, but then another hero walks across a seemingly plain tile and gets a big prestige boost, presumably because he or she has completed a quest. If I knew another hero was heading towards a quest, I could then try to make that more difficult to protect my lead, which would make for more strategic interaction.

The ways to gain prestige are:
- Killing other heroes or banes. This gives one prestige per kill if you do not die yourself.
- Questing. This is more effective for the characters with more quests implemented.
- Cards. While you can get prestige without them, some of the most effective prestige gains come from cards such as the royal banner or game of thorns. You'll be looking for items and trickery cards if you want prestige manipulation.

When trying to get or hold a prestige lead, I find that it's best to constantly keep an eye on everyones prestige. You don't have to know where everyones quest is, if you know that amber is the only one who has a change to catch you, you can just mess up everything amber does and you'll be fine.


If I want to go for the Spirit Stone victory, I should cross my fingers because they aren't reliably found anywhere. But, okay, a randomized victory condition that you stumble across rather than pursue adds flavor.

Spirit stones are found in three ways:
- Dungeons. Try a lot of times to be sure.
- Druids might give you some at standing stone at night.
- Each player starts with one, which you can wrestle from them by beating them in combat.

It takes a good deal of luck to get 4 stones. But planning and strategy can make it a good deal easier. I have made one spiritstone vic against Ai's, which included teleporting across the map to harass Amber out of hers, to get my fourth.

If I want to go for the Kingslayer victory, I should...what? Keep playing cards willy nilly until I've collected enough of the right symbols to burn and get me through the peril (and the guard, if necessary)? Wait until the King is nearly dead anyway so that I can kill him more easily and hopefully have had the time to find the items/followers that will allow me to survive?

If you are going to attempt kingslaying, you need two things: Good combat stats and a way to pass the peril.
To gear up for combat, you can raid the item stack, explore dungeons in hope of finding relics or quest to attempt to increase your fight stat.
To have a better chance of passing the peril, you want to either beef up your spirit or wits, or gather the four necesary symbols. A good idea here, is never to hold cards in your hand unless you have a specific purpose for them. If you don't have a plan for your cards, burn them or play them to make room for more useful cards.


The way it comes across now is that the one viable path to victory is prestige and that the other options are late game hail marys if you are behind in the prestige race. Is that the way it's supposed to be? I think it would be more interesting if each victory condition was viable, and they just required different prioritization to achieve. I thought that was the original intent, but I'm not seeing it so far.

But that doesn't necessarily mean these nuances aren't there. Just that if they are, they're not very clear at the moment.  And it may be that some of the aspects that make non-prestige victories more attractive aren't in yet. This is the kind of stuff I'd be most interested to see in the next guide or revision to the tutorial system.

I find that the victory conditions all come up in the game pretty much every time in multiplayer (Less so against the AI). Spirit stones is probably the least frequent, but on the other hand, having four spirit stones means that you are pretty much strolling down win lane (Until the three other players all simultaneously poison gifts you...).
In the interest of not putting anyone off their appetites... I hid the bodies elsewhere.


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Fletchtower

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Re: can someone explain a few things or tell me where to read about it?
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2014, 06:46:30 AM »
Great response. Thank you. It sounds like the nuance is there, I just didn't have the context to understand it. Things like how to manipulate skills or prestige open this up quite a bit. I'll keep all this in mind my next time through.

Xiander

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Re: can someone explain a few things or tell me where to read about it?
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2014, 08:21:40 AM »
Great response. Thank you. It sounds like the nuance is there, I just didn't have the context to understand it. Things like how to manipulate skills or prestige open this up quite a bit. I'll keep all this in mind my next time through.

Good luck, tell us how you do.

Another note: Multiplayer is a lot better than singleplayer, as the AI tend to dogpile the player a lot, and have limited understanding of how to win themselves.
In the interest of not putting anyone off their appetites... I hid the bodies elsewhere.


Agog to be the 3,579th wizard on BackerKit for Armello

8BitProxy

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Re: can someone explain a few things or tell me where to read about it?
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2014, 11:53:03 PM »
Yep. But both the guide and the game are unclear as to viable paths to those other victory conditions.

If I want to go for the Prestige victory, I should perform "Heroic deeds such as succeeding quests  or defeating opponents and banes." Fine, I can wander around the map and do that, though trying to gather it through dungeons and quests seems a lot more productive than combat if you're anyone other than Thane. But it's hard to plot against the other heroes when you can't tell where their quest tiles are. Several times I've played where I have a clear prestige lead, but then another hero walks across a seemingly plain tile and gets a big prestige boost, presumably because he or she has completed a quest. If I knew another hero was heading towards a quest, I could then try to make that more difficult to protect my lead, which would make for more strategic interaction.

If I want to go for the Spirit Stone victory, I should cross my fingers because they aren't reliably found anywhere. But, okay, a randomized victory condition that you stumble across rather than pursue adds flavor.

If I want to go for the Kingslayer victory, I should...what? Keep playing cards willy nilly until I've collected enough of the right symbols to burn and get me through the peril (and the guard, if necessary)? Wait until the King is nearly dead anyway so that I can kill him more easily and hopefully have had the time to find the items/followers that will allow me to survive?

The way it comes across now is that the one viable path to victory is prestige and that the other options are late game hail marys if you are behind in the prestige race. Is that the way it's supposed to be? I think it would be more interesting if each victory condition was viable, and they just required different prioritization to achieve. I thought that was the original intent, but I'm not seeing it so far.

But that doesn't necessarily mean these nuances aren't there. Just that if they are, they're not very clear at the moment.  And it may be that some of the aspects that make non-prestige victories more attractive aren't in yet. This is the kind of stuff I'd be most interested to see in the next guide or revision to the tutorial system.

You bring up a few really great points here! LoG are well aware of the huge power Prestige victories hold over the game compared to other victories. However dont you worry they plan on equalizing everything for the final release!A couple of ways you can gain prestige are from killing other players and banes.  However you can also complete quests, Equip items and just get lucky. Specifically watch out for Lord's Sceptre and the Royal Banner.  The banner will give you +3 prestige and the sceptre +1 prestige per settlement claimed.  If you are constantly losing your settlement you should definitely look into drawing from the item deck for this one. 

Spirit stones can be found from dungeons and if your willing to farm a dungeon for the stones it can be a very reliable victory condition.  Agreed it can be non-viable when the kings decree to steal them is declared however often many players have more then one by this time anyway and you can kill them as well for theirs.

I agree killing the king successfully can be quite a difficulty however if you can equip right it is quite possible.  Granted Thane has much more of an advantage then Sana however she is made to me more passive and go for such victories as prestige or more specifically spirit stones.  A Viable king killing strategy is earning rot.  Rot works in a way that if you have more rot then the other player/npc you get whatever their rot is in extra dice rolls.  The king dies at 8 rot so if you equip and fight him with a higher rot you can easily dispatch him. Unfortunately right now I would not recommend this strategy because at the moment Rot is being entirely reworked for a later release.

Alvorn

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Re: can someone explain a few things or tell me where to read about it?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2014, 09:16:02 PM »
There appear to be some really interesting systems, but the whole is unsatisfying. I'm hoping that's because it's not all there yet.

Hey Fletchtower,

I gave similar sort of feedback during the Alpha at one point (and felt very guilty for doing so). However the LoG guys were totally cool with it and understood what I meant.

The fact is that all the systems aren't in game and the ones that are, are still being polished. AI is a great example. Its there but its crude, Im sure you have seen the AI characters walk around in circles every now and then.
This  is the joy (so to speak) of coming into a game so early on, while you have to put up with a couple of things, you also get the chance to provide feedback and help shape the games future.
The guys took my feedback on board and made a bunch of changes and two builds later the game really felt like it was starting to come together, then they added in the multiplayer and I was sold (more so than before).
The game is still rough around the edges and missing a TON of content but I can see what the  LoG crew are aiming for and completely get how awesome this game will be.
So all I can suggest is you stick with it (new builds are due to come out every fortnight) and provide feedback here on the boards. It can and will only get better.

Alvorn

Alvorn

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Re: can someone explain a few things or tell me where to read about it?
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2014, 09:18:47 PM »
Hopefully, one of these guides will explain a lot more of how the game mechanics interact. Or whether major ones aren't currently implemented.

8BitProxy and I are working on a more fleshed out Unofficial Game Guide which will go into detail on these things as well as pointing out areas that aren't 100% there yet.
It also includes tips on game play etc.

Unfortunately life has gotten on top of both of us over the past week and so its coming along a little slower than we would have liked. But keep any eye out here on the forums, cause this is where we will release it too.

Alvorn

Alvorn

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Re: can someone explain a few things or tell me where to read about it?
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2014, 09:37:09 PM »
- Druids might give you some at standing stone at night.

Just note that you can only meet the Druids if your lucky and no matter how many times you revisit the spirit stones afterwards, you will only ever find them once per game.