Author Topic: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King  (Read 13851 times)

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Lienn

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2015, 12:14:58 PM »
So with the early access I notice we do not have access to these amazing individuals yet... as a Bandit Tier backer, when can we expect access to them?   Thanks!

Only at full release...or a bit after. Trent stated Bandit clan heroes are around the bottom of priority list.
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Lisy Kane

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2015, 12:49:04 PM »
So with the early access I notice we do not have access to these amazing individuals yet... as a Bandit Tier backer, when can we expect access to them?   Thanks!

The Bandit Tier is going to be released at the Full Release of Armello!

Hobbes

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2015, 09:48:41 PM »
Scarlet : Is able to see the first draw each turn that she makes from each deck.

Simple, effective, and potentially very powerful. She gets to preview each turn from all three decks for her first draw, which means she can decide which card she wants from which deck, she'll also know which cards sit on top of the other two decks at that point, so she can decide if she wants -those- as well.

Lienn

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2015, 02:27:57 AM »
Scarlet is the Bandit King. The one to unify all bandit tribes into one...even if by force. It's expected she having a hero talent related to followers. Maybe stealling followers from foes.

"Adds a slain foe's follower to her hand" would be a valid ability to her since she still would have to pay the follower's cost in order to have it. Maybe only stealing if she do overkill at fight as sign of power.

OR....

+1 Fight per equipped follower (auto-war horn)...or +1 everything! /o/

I'm pretty sure it was suggested already but a chance of getting a follower when you claim a settlement is also good. ^^
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 02:42:22 AM by Lienn »
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Hobbes

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2015, 09:34:34 AM »
I like the concept of "Chance to get follower on settlement capture" but it'd have to be low (I'm looking toward a factor of between 1 in 3 to 1 in 4) as broadly speaking followers don't turn up often enough as it is, and it would make Scarlet VERY gamebreaky if she ended up with a full stack of followers early on and everyone else was struggling to obtain one.

Lienn

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2015, 09:53:44 AM »
Not really. After all you can't really keep overclaiming your own settlements as you do with dungeons (unless you burn some incite revolt) and there's always the limit of 3 followers so even if she keeps getting followers she'll be limited to 3 equipped anyway. And, differently from Amber than can continuously update treasures equipped (actually could...good times that never return...), Followers can be pretty expensives and most not stackable (like Doctor and Berserker...even if she had 2, only one actually would activate) so it's not like she'll be rotating among them.
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Hobbes

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2015, 01:49:09 PM »
You're missing my point. Other players very, very rarely -get- followers over the course of the game. Scarlet getting a full stack each game would be very, very gamebreaky. That could be seriously bad if Scarlet was to consistently get 2-3 followers per game.

As a secondary consideration : I'm basing my thinking on the presumption that the bandit clan *WILL* feature as part of the default metagame for all players, therefore everyone has access. If that proves not to be the case then bandit talents would have to be severely reined in, in order to make them comparatively restricted as not to unbalance the meta. You can have Bandits that are equal to all other heroes, but you'll have to make sure everyone else can get access to them, or you can have exclusive Bandits, but you'll be taking a hit in their effective ability to allow for the fact they cannot be permitted to upset ranked meta. That's the choice, and it -is- an either/or, you don't get to have both, not without wrecking ranked matches.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 01:54:00 PM by Hobbes »

Lienn

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2015, 02:58:52 PM »
Maybe it change as new followers are added but currently having 3 followers are in no way game breaking. If they were we wouldn't have 3 slots, right?

During beta amber consistently got 3 followers every single match from tomb Raider and it never really made her OP because followers are no more than extra talents...some very crappy, rarely stackable and, to not forget, expensive too.

And those who use metagame and abilities as excuse to try and put pressure on devs to break their own promise forget they know the game best. Also, anyone playing it knows ability is just a fraction of a hero. Think Thane or Mercurio are good because of their talent? They already did well even before heroes had talents coded. Sana usually feels weak due her situational talent? In no way.

Using this as excuse only makes players ignorant about the game mechanics to actually think it's a big deal, which is not. If they made the Mad King as backer-only character then it would be a completely different thing because he's superior to heroes in stats and talent (just his 9 Body + 8 Fight are already higher than the regular 15 total stats of heroes and a talent that gives 1 Rot each night is really OP) but they didn't. And the heroes won't have formidable stuff either. They let clear Thane is a top-notch fighter so we can easily assume 5 Fight is the cap for it (and he may potentially be the only hero with 5 Fight). Amber is listed as the richest hero so 6 starting Gold is potentially the cap with chance of no one else reach this amount and so on.

In the end the 4 starters may be the overall strongest Armello heroes.

Anyway, here is not the place to discuss the Bandit drama so if you feel the urge of making this uncalled discussion even longer, feel free to do so through PM.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 03:06:04 PM by Lienn »
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Hobbes

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2015, 04:06:40 PM »
You're still missing my point. Fine, I'll make it clearer.

Maybe it change as new followers are added but currently having 3 followers are in no way game breaking. If they were we wouldn't have 3 slots, right?

We do, but how many games do we actively see where any player has more than one hero. Amber excluded? I can't recall ever having more than one on Sana, definitely not on Thane and maybe 1-2 on Mercurio.

Quote
During beta amber consistently got 3 followers every single match from tomb Raider and it never really made her OP because followers are no more than extra talents...some very crappy, rarely stackable and, to not forget, expensive too.

That's because Amber is using a tactic involving dungeon milling that may well get adjusted as the developers are discovering edge case / exploitative use of mechanics and play. Expect that to get changed, and yes, we only have half the cards, so currently we don't really have the full picture.

Quote
And those who use metagame and abilities as excuse to try and put pressure on devs to break their own promise forget they know the game best. Also, anyone playing it knows ability is just a fraction of a hero. Think Thane or Mercurio are good because of their talent? They already did well even before heroes had talents coded. Sana usually feels weak due her situational talent? In no way.

The metagame is easily the strongest argument for that discussion, but I won't continue it here. You may want to refrain from framing it as 'breaking their promises', because right now it's more a case that the developers are trying to work out a compromise solution that makes everyone happy.

Quote
Using this as excuse only makes players ignorant about the game mechanics to actually think it's a big deal, which is not. If they made the Mad King as backer-only character then it would be a completely different thing because he's superior to heroes in stats and talent (just his 9 Body + 8 Fight are already higher than the regular 15 total stats of heroes and a talent that gives 1 Rot each night is really OP) but they didn't. And the heroes won't have formidable stuff either. They let clear Thane is a top-notch fighter so we can easily assume 5 Fight is the cap for it (and he may potentially be the only hero with 5 Fight). Amber is listed as the richest hero so 6 starting Gold is potentially the cap with chance of no one else reach this amount and so on.

In the end the 4 starters may be the overall strongest Armello heroes.

Anyway, here is not the place to discuss the Bandit drama so if you feel the urge of making this uncalled discussion even longer, feel free to do so through PM.

I'm not ignorant of the stat makeup, thank you. But as we both agree, this is not the place for -that- discussion. My statement stands, you want talents for the Bandit clan that risk being very game-breaky, then for ranked matches, all the heroes -have- to be available to everyone. No ifs and no buts. There's no defence you can put up in regards to ranked matches that works cogently to suggest otherwise. If you believe different, PM me. We can talk there.

Lienn

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2015, 04:42:17 PM »
Well, maybe you need to play more...or maybe people need to DC less so matches currently can go past half more often because i already have seen plenty of non-Ambers with fully-equipped Hero Shelf.

And the ability alone will never be a game breaker (unless it happens to be literally broken and offering unintended results, that can end with major bonuses...but it's not something they'd let stay more than time needed to find the bug and fix it)...but if the excuse works for you, stick with it.

Just keep in mind that the devs know the game best. If you have the creator of the game coming along just to say it, it's because most of those discussing it had absolutely no clue what they were talking about. =/
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 05:11:34 PM by Lienn »
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Hobbes

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2015, 06:05:19 PM »
Well, maybe you need to play more...or maybe people need to DC less so matches currently can go past half more often because i already have seen plenty of non-Ambers with fully-equipped Hero Shelf.

And the ability alone will never be a game breaker (unless it happens to be literally broken and offering unintended results, that can end with major bonuses...but it's not something they'd let stay more than time needed to find the bug and fix it)...but if the excuse works for you, stick with it.

Just keep in mind that the devs know the game best. If you have the creator of the game coming along just to say it, it's because most of those discussing it had absolutely no clue what they were talking about. =/

Three of the main contributors to the Steam thread (myself, AuburnRDM and TheRedRacoon) are fairly well clued up. A little less of the personal please.

If you wish to discuss this further, contact me via PM or via my steam. I'd be happy to go into detail there. Steam info is in my sig.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 06:08:37 PM by Hobbes »

Lienn

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2015, 06:38:08 PM »
LOL ok...replying just because it was worth the laugh.

No, thanks. I'm certain your "fairly well clued friends" will be better discussion partners than me. =P

Stopping it now tho. But if you feel like resuming the talent discussion go ahead! ^^

----------------Back on-topic-------------------

Another option is, depending of her starting Gold, being able to recruit followers that have Gold cost for free. After all TBH currently only Doctor is worth his gold cost.
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Hobbes

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2015, 06:59:50 PM »
Removing the gold cost from followers for Scarlet is thematic, and makes sense, it also would not give her any undue balance issues, so that would be an easy sell. However I feel that might be a little too subtle, I've seen quite a number of games where followers have been *low*, no joke, we've got to day seven and there's been one follower per hero. Tops.

Generally the problem right now seems to be that the only reliable ways to get followers is from dungeoning, and that only comes from Amber (and her talent is notoriously unreliable even then). Quests are ... very much a muchness when it comes to it, and there's most definitely no followers from draws.

Scarlet could -start- with a follower in her hand, that would quite possibly work out decently if combined with your suggestion (in effect, she gets a follower and she can play it for free from the get go). That would make for a useful, and steady bonus to Scarlet for each game without being outright breaky.

Lienn

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2015, 03:13:29 AM »
Starting with follower may or may not be a issue because we don't know her starting gold nor how Guppy gonna work. Unless Guppy is free (which i doubt), it may become a starting hand burden.
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Hobbes

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Re: Introducing Scarlet, the Bandit King
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2015, 04:43:21 AM »
I did say in conjunction with your idea...