Author Topic: Small Card Changes.  (Read 495 times)

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LunarFrost

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Small Card Changes.
« on: August 28, 2017, 09:09:23 AM »
This post is meant to give small changes to cards like changing rarity, deck, cost, removing cards etc...

No effects will be touched.

If I think a card needs to be removed from the game, it's because of one of two things.

1. The card is never used for it's intended purpose
2. The card is never used. Period.

Items

War Hammer - Rare -> Uncommon

Longbow - Uncommon -> Rare

Spyglass - Remove from game.

Poisoned Dagger - Remove from game.

Cub's Blood - Unique -> Rare

Snake Venom - Remove from game.

----
Magic

The Cleansing Wyld - Rare -> Uncommon

Focus- 3 Magic -> 2 Magic

Syphon- 6 Magic -> 4 Magic

Spirit Seeds - Remove from game.

----

Trickery

Strategist- Unique > Rare

Patronage and Industry- 3 Gold -> 2 Gold

Plague Bearers- Trickery Deck -> Magic Deck

Game of Thorns- 6 gold -> 4 Gold

Armistice- Remove from game.

Arson- Remove from game.

Blood Money- Remove from game.

Blackmail- 3 Gold -> 2 Gold

Grand Heist- 6 Gold -> 4 Gold

Thoughts?



I'm the guy that genuinely looks forward to change and when nothing changes, I worry.

I also like reasonable debates.

Kletian999

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Re: Small Card Changes.
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2017, 12:58:43 PM »
Items

War Hammer - Rare -> Uncommon= No real feelings.  I don't like wielding War Hammer but there's no harm in more of them existing/

Longbow - Uncommon -> Rare= Fair enough, another card I don't like to use and stacks poorly- so less is better.

Spyglass - Remove from game= It's tied to an achievement, so it has to be around.   Even with a different effect.  It'd be cool if it let you see your opponent's hands during their turns or combat.

Poisoned Dagger - Remove from game=  Just needs a new mechanic, like 1 static/first missed roll is poison die.  Poison die are blocked last.

Cub's Blood - Unique -> Rare= Good change.  It's a good card finally and should be seen more.

Snake Venom - Remove from game.= See Poison dagger.  we need more rot cards in the game, they just need to be better.


----
Magic

The Cleansing Wyld - Rare -> Uncommon= Sure.

Focus- 3 Magic -> 2 Magic= Would make it more useful, even if it needed to only be 2 spirit gain.

Syphon- 6 Magic -> 4 Magic= Hard to say.  It's supposed to be a game-changing card for getting rot yet I've not seen it played.

Spirit Seeds - Remove from game= Why.  If Ghor's a problem change Ghor.  Getting to grow a forest is cool.

----

Trickery

Strategist- Unique > Rare= Sure, it'd help the deck a lot.

Patronage and Industry- 3 Gold -> 2 Gold=  It's good for this card to pay for itself.

Plague Bearers- Trickery Deck -> Magic Deck= Definately.  Zombies don't work for money or favors.

Game of Thorns- 6 gold -> 4 Gold= No.  It's a game changer and worth the price.

Armistice- Remove from game.= Being a straight to traitor finally makes it not "Bounty for dummies" anymore, but a stronger bite still would further justify it's existence.

Arson- Remove from game- No, it's a cool card.

Blood Money- Remove from game.= No, but make it clear you can throw it on someone else and reap the cash.

Blackmail- 3 Gold -> 2 Gold= No,  it's a good card for gold denial and doesn't need to be cheaper./

Grand Heist- 6 Gold -> 4 Gold= No, it's a game changer worth full price.

LunarFrost

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Re: Small Card Changes.
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2017, 02:05:26 PM »
Items

Spyglass - Remove from game= It's tied to an achievement, so it has to be around.   Even with a different effect.  It'd be cool if it let you see your opponent's hands during their turns or combat.

Poisoned Dagger - Remove from game=  Just needs a new mechanic, like 1 static/first missed roll is poison die.  Poison die are blocked last.

Snake Venom - Remove from game.= See Poison dagger.  we need more rot cards in the game, they just need to be better.

The reason I believe Spyglass, Poisoned Dagger, and Snake Venom should be removed from the game is that LoG has shown no signs of even bothering to change these cards, even though they are all clearly bad.

None of these cards are used for their intended purpose if they are even used at all. They all have poor effects that don't do much if anything in-game. The community have asked for these cards to be changed due to them being extremely lackluster, but LoG, even with all the suggestions and requests to get these cards changed, have not done anything.

These cards should be removed if LoG has no intention of changing them.
----
Magic

Syphon- 6 Magic -> 4 Magic= Hard to say.  It's supposed to be a game-changing card for getting rot yet I've not seen it played.

Spirit Seeds - Remove from game= Why.  If Ghor's a problem change Ghor.  Getting to grow a forest is cool.

Syphon isn't a big game changer. It's +2 rot most of the time it gets played. Many other cards give 2 rot for much, MUCH less...Dark Influence, Plague, and Malice Rising for the most common ones.

Spirit Seeds needs to be removed, not because it works with Ghor, but because it's an overall useless card. This card doesn't help the caster at all. The most it gives someone is +1 health...for 5 magic. Not to mention, terraforming cards mess with the map's quest gen which can lead to some problems in-game technically.

----
Trickery

Game of Thorns- 6 gold -> 4 Gold= No.  It's a game changer and worth the price.

Armistice- Remove from game.= Being a straight to traitor finally makes it not "Bounty for dummies" anymore, but a stronger bite still would further justify it's existence.

Arson- Remove from game- No, it's a cool card.

Blood Money- Remove from game.= No, but make it clear you can throw it on someone else and reap the cash.

Blackmail- 3 Gold -> 2 Gold= No,  it's a good card for gold denial and doesn't need to be cheaper./

Grand Heist- 6 Gold -> 4 Gold= No, it's a game changer worth full price.

Game of Thorns only sees use at the very end of the game when the king has 1-2 HP. The reason it only sees use that late into the game is because 6 gold for 3 prestige is a HUGE investment for something that could potentially have no effect. Reducing it to 4 will mean this card will see more use early-mid game as more people can afford it and not get just destroyed if that 3 prestige isn't working out.

Armistice has always been a bad card. It's effect hardly ever gets proc'd in-game and it isn't much for a deterrent. Not to mention if you want to kill the guy who played this card to you ; just use spells. It doesn't proc the bounty and it's much more effectively then fighting the guy.

Arson isn't a cool card. It has the same problems that Spirit Seeds has except this card is in a much worse deck with a much more expensive cost. If you want to do damage to someone, just use literally any other card.

I know how Blood Money works and I still say this card is bad. This card is never played in-game as it requires a really SPECIFIC situation for it to be even remotely useful, but the other downside is that this card is in a bad deck with only one copy. This card never gets used, so it shouldn't be in the game.

Blackmail isn't a good card for gold denial ; Vile Official is. You rarely get the money you put into casting Blackmail as the other person will only usually let you get 1-2 gold before they kill you/themselves to get rid of the pact.

Grand Heist. There are much stronger game changers in Armello that cost much, much less. Similar to Game of Thorns, this card doesn't see use till late game due to it costing so much and potentially having no effect.
I'm the guy that genuinely looks forward to change and when nothing changes, I worry.

I also like reasonable debates.

Wessolf27

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Re: Small Card Changes.
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2017, 11:52:12 PM »
Hrmm... I'd actually say it's easier to gain coin than magic, so Grand Heist isn't bad for its current cost. If anything, we just need to make Moon Juice or other ways of gaining some extra magic a little more common.

I also do like Kletian's suggestion for Spyglass (though I'd actually consider that it's probably better to change that into a consumable or a trickery pact instead rather than having that effect be given to an equipment)

As for Syphon, it's all about timing and playing as many Bane-bringing cards as possible. The proclamation that brings 3 banes out is especially potent for this.

As for Armstice, it might be a good idea if the code that's used when using harmful cards on a King's Guard works the same way as using harmful cards on a player with this pact on. If anything, it just needs tweaking.

And Blood Money a bad card? Really? There's a quite a lot of use for this card especially for any character that's constantly strapped for cash yet has a ton of Fight. (I'm looking at Barnaby, Horace, Zosha, Brun, and any of the wolves) though admittedly, the prestige cost is a bit of a deterrent, it usually means that you're either not focusing on prestige wins anymore in favor of another means, or you're already quite far ahead in the prestige game. And you could technically get more coins from it compared to Crime Lord as well.

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Kletian999

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Re: Small Card Changes.
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2017, 01:04:18 PM »
I'll have a longer reply later, but long story short, if you've given up the faith that the Devs will eventually adjust cards disliked by the community, you should DEFINITELY give up on the idea of them removing cards from the game that the community doesn't like.

1. They paid for the art.  Even if they have to make a brand new card with a completely different effect, they don't want that art to go to waste.  If they are going to replace a card with the same art, it might as well just be a revision of that card.

2. Sunk cost effort.  Human nature to not want to undo something done.  See the dice priority removal.  Not a single player advocates for it and we hate the tortuous things they do to cards like Longbow to make the system work, but they don't want to go backwards.

3. They've gone on record saying the deck is supposed to have some bad cards to challenge the player to empty their hands.  The whole ROT system for uncorrupted people is usually dead card burning.

LunarFrost

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Re: Small Card Changes.
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2017, 01:46:51 PM »
They've gone on record saying the deck is supposed to have some bad cards to challenge the player to empty their hands.  The whole ROT system for uncorrupted people is usually dead card burning.

Source?
I'm the guy that genuinely looks forward to change and when nothing changes, I worry.

I also like reasonable debates.

dragoncrescent

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Re: Small Card Changes.
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2017, 01:56:27 PM »
Eh!? A lot of these cards are in a much better place than they were in the past. Longbow’s gone through two revisions already, and I’m actually pretty satisfied with it right now. It has middle priority, and I’ve used this nonsense to deal the gamewinning blow to the King several times. Cub’s Blood went from useless to conditionally handy.

I will agree with Poisoned Dagger/Snake Venom. The cards are kind of terrible, at the moment. Their poison hits are late priority and unless you are corrupted, must pay to use their effect at all. It is just bad economics to first pay to use a card, and then have to feed it again to get an unreliable effect from it. My suggestion has always been to give Snake Venom it’s old effect back: “First rolled Rot is a Poison Hit”. This makes the card useful in that, even if that Poison hit doesn’t get through, it still turns a miss into a hit. Poison Dagger can probably keep its current effect, but with the added +1 Dice in combat (akin to Battle Axe). I mean, it’s a dagger. I’m not sure why it wouldn’t grant some small bonus in a fight.

Syphon, Spirit Seeds, and Crystallize is really cool cards but almost exclusively meant for the Bears. If they were in the realm of 5 magic, I could see them being more generally useful to other characters.

Playing Grand Heist gives you literally 1/4th of your win condition. Additionally, it can kick the legs right out from under someone going for a Purification win. This card NEEDS to be expensive. Same with Game of Thorns.

Kletian999

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Re: Small Card Changes.
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2017, 09:05:50 AM »
They've gone on record saying the deck is supposed to have some bad cards to challenge the player to empty their hands.  The whole ROT system for uncorrupted people is usually dead card burning.

Source?

My brain hurts remembering stuff this old.  Read the post date and pity me.

http://leagueofgeeks.com/forums/index.php?topic=1336.msg11578#msg11578