Author Topic: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down - actually maybe not  (Read 5907 times)

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Echo

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Yeah, just cause he's visible in forests now at all times doesnt make him any less powerful. Ghor can still effortlessly burn through a spell deck with no item cards and high wits and dominate the board. I have nothing good to say about this character, its broken.

Give him 1 Spell point discount while in forests and the ability to cast to any forest, but nothing else.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 10:31:16 PM by Echo »

InariFox

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2017, 07:24:47 AM »
Nah, I think they've done enough to Ghor already. Having no stealth in forests is devastating enough as it is, getting mauled by banes and trickeries.
I've been maining Ghor since the start of the DLC release, I've been playing as Ghor in the fairest way possible.
Proof is in a few Devs vs Community streams and from other players testimonials.
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Echo

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2017, 08:13:19 AM »
I hardly find it anywhere near balanced that you can spam the board with spell cards for free. I just faced off against a Ghor player and all game all he did is buff his health and wits and just kept camping in forests and drawing nothing but spell cards. He dominated the board and nothing could even get him in combat because of high health and casting Wyld's Warning on himself.

He also effortlessly reached all his quests half way in and he left the palace quest as it is so nobody else could kick him out and get at a combat victory. It's amazing how he can just teleport from one end of the map to another at all times without the need of Spirit, because he can just cast it onto the forest tile which is out of his magic range.

Sorry to say but I fully disagree with anybody that says this character is balanced... I see some people play this character and what they're doing is just infuriating and demonstrates the potential of how broken this character is.

Try it, play a game with nothing but wits and health quests, draw nothing but spell cards and see how ridiculous this character is. Don't even need any thinking or skills for it. I never played this character but from what I saw it's just broken.

InariFox

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2017, 08:55:45 AM »
I hardly find it anywhere near balanced that you can spam the board with spell cards for free. I just faced off against a Ghor player and all game all he did is buff his health and wits and just kept camping in forests and drawing nothing but spell cards. He dominated the board and nothing could even get him in combat because of high health and casting Wyld's Warning on himself.

He also effortlessly reached all his quests half way in and he left the palace quest as it is so nobody else could kick him out and get at a combat victory. It's amazing how he can just teleport from one end of the map to another at all times without the need of Spirit, because he can just cast it onto the forest tile which is out of his magic range.

Sorry to say but I fully disagree with anybody that says this character is balanced... I see some people play this character and what they're doing is just infuriating and demonstrates the potential of how broken this character is.

Try it, play a game with nothing but wits and health quests, draw nothing but spell cards and see how ridiculous this character is. Don't even need any thinking or skills for it. I never played this character but from what I saw it's just broken.

Here's a video of me playing as Ghor only doing Fight and wits quests. I use the amber ring and scratch amulet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSf2Q3Gy_oI
I feel like I'm in a small minority that plays Ghor in this fashion, I do use lots of strategy and I never camp in forests. That's what everyone thinks of every Ghor player, a troll just there for farming prestige but no one thinks of the pure players that play him fair and going for quests like I do.
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Echo

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2017, 09:05:09 AM »
Well guess what... I just played my very first game as Ghor against 3 wolf clan players, all of them... end result, I won with 20 prestige and the next best was 3 prestige. I died in combat 3 times, once to a Bane spawning next to me, once mutually killed one another with Magna and once with Thane.

My only items were Leather Armor (from start) and Battle Axe (Glamour from opponent).

I played for health and wits, drew nothing but spell cards, as a result:

- I dominated the board and opponents with destructive spells.
- Completed all quests by day 4 by teleporting and Haste.
- Maintained a high HP with healing spells so any spells and traps were futile unless you could dish out 6-8 damage in a single go.
- Any combat I initiated was won by me without exception because of Feral + Mirror Image.
- Other players were so hindered they just kept trying to get through the palace peril which I fortified with Cursed Lands.
- Even if players did get in I either kicked them out with Wyld's Warning or killed by spells.
- If it wasnt me kicking them out of the palace they managed to kill each other.

Now if this is what I managed to achieve on my very first time playing Ghor... well I can't really say anything aside from this character being overpowered and broken. I might as well play as Ghor from this point on and make a War Room thread to post the screenshot of every end result of my games and show that unless the opponents get lucky and team up they stand no chance.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 09:10:20 AM by Echo »

Kletian999

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2017, 01:42:03 PM »
I'd be happy for Ghor to have his stealth back with a max cap of 2 reduction from his power.  Ghor needed the nerf, but not to his steath.

Echo

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2017, 04:25:35 AM »
I'd be happy for Ghor to have his stealth back with a max cap of 2 reduction from his power.  Ghor needed the nerf, but not to his steath.
Honestly with my first play with Ghor I didn't even feel impact of me not being stealthed... sure a Bane killed me because of it but the only thing Ghor not being in stealth does is tell us to avoid that area by a mile with the off chance of stack of Immolation spells.

I must admit that the power I had over the entire game was unmatched by anything I ever had in my previous plays and this is what upsets me. There was no challenge to playing this character because I burned through the spell deck with no penalty and with the amount of buff spells and nukes I had no imminent danger around me.

I barely used up any spell points in the process to begin with because I was in a 4 patch so the only time I had to use spell points was when I cast Lightning Strike or Crystallize. And the only other time I utilized my spell points was when I briefly had to step out of the forest to nuke someone with Spirit Strike (because if I get spell discount on that it's rendered useless). So yeah, With the exception of 3 spell cards I didn't even need spell points to use them.

And the worst is when I actually had 2 Evil Eyes... That double boost in wits allowed me to rack up a massive stack of spells and literally wiped the board clean off of any opponents.

That all being said, I stand my ground, Ghor is OP. With his ability I would allow a maximum of 1 spell point discount. Especially because whenever I had the Apprentice as a follower even that gave me a significant boost.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 04:28:36 AM by Echo »

vardgo

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2017, 10:49:23 AM »
How good was the map generation of that match?  if there were clumps of 3 forests around yeah that makes sense
, but in most games there is at max 2 forests touching each other, and in more then a few I played there were not any touching.

Phlox

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2017, 07:05:55 PM »
I think the problem with Ghor is not that he cant be played fair...but if he meets the right conditions he feels more like "cannon" than "glasscannon".

I would have loved the nerf to be of the "you MUST move kind" like wearing off the capability to casts spells for free when hiding in a bunch of woodtiles. (like it was proposed in some of the threads)

But the removal of stealth has made him less dangerous...if you meet him in a game, you still have to be on your toes and try to hinder him to get to the point where he can build his forrest-fortress and bomb everybody.

Like Inari, I am sad that this lovely bear is hated so much. (But I understand you won't love him when you are on the receiving end of the spellchain)
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InariFox

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2017, 04:04:07 PM »
Like Inari, I am sad that this lovely bear is hated so much. (But I understand you won't love him when you are on the receiving end of the spellchain)

Reason I was depressed about the whole Ghor hate thing is that I was incredibly excited to play as Ghor the most when he was announced and not just for hero power but I just loved the cute bear overall. When I first played as Ghor, I never intended to hurt anyone with my spells and use my spells to my own benefit to assist me throughout the game by buffing myself/, getting myself across the map or harming banes. When people saw me play Ghor, they thought it was weird to see me draw items alot???  When the controversy strikes, people were protesting that Ghor would get nerfed and I found nothing wrong with Ghor to begin with possibly because I never played against a Ghor through the times in multiplayer before the nerf happened. There were people that refused to play if you chose Ghor and there were witch hunts against Ghor players.  Whenever I see a heated discussion about how Ghor is a thing that shouldn't exist in Armello, I get upset about the matter. There was a time on Discord where people having a heated argument about Ghor and I felt it was something that was getting out of hand and I wanted to stop it but it ended up me losing a lot friends in Discord and the Armello community. Then the nerf happened and I was rather upset about the loss of stealth as well as the single forest tile discount.  The end of 2016 was rough for me due to the fact that Ghor got the short end of the stick when it came to the popularity of the Ursurpers like having non existent  fan art and people just ignoring his existence.
It's 2017 and I'd say things are looking up for the lovable bear but I just wished things could have been fine from the start . I nearly got depressed to the point of almost retiring from the community but I should stay strong and continue to play nicely with everyone in the public multiplayer.
Sorry for the long post, this is my story of how I dealt with alot of hate from others and my feelings on the hero.  Here's wishing a lot of love for Ghor in the future. He's just a misunderstood bear...
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Kletian999

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2017, 10:01:13 PM »
Indeed, it's unfortunate that the abuse potential of his power and the antagonistic quality of his chatboxes wasn't vetted out by LoG or community tests before he got such a bad rap.

Phlox

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2017, 10:06:37 PM »
Like Inari I was absolutly crazed when Ghor was announced...I loved the idea of the lost bear discovering his bounds with nature....and then I entered my first game AGAINST him.  The Ghor-player just went 3 steps in his first turn, ending up in a cluster of 3 wooden tiles...and after that bombed everybody on the board  turn after turn until the spell deck was shuffled again...and I thought: WTF? Game didnt end up well for everybody but Ghor....nobody was able to attack him before being nuked back into homegrounds. A terrible experience...no fun at all. So I am grateful for the nerf Ghor has received. He still is able to put off some tricks of his sleeve, but hiding and firing with having a unpenetrable "safety zone" around him just didnt feel like "fair play" (if something like fairplay exists in the Kingdom of Armello).
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Echo

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2017, 11:44:42 PM »
I saw far too few play Ghor in a way didn't didn't make me hate him. For a long while I left any lobby that had a Ghor player in it, but recently decided to give him a new shot... well sorry to say, still nope. That character is still an overpowered abomination of this game and I witnessed it on the receiving end several times and this first time I played as him. That lack of stealth had little to no impact.

I would settle for either 1 spell discount in forest or one off discount with surrounding forests per turn to prevent nuking the map.

To answer the question, I had a pretty neat map layout with a trail of forests patched on one side and another patch on the other, so basically I had a patch 3 AP away at all times... not that I needed the AP due to teleport spells.

dragoncrescent

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2017, 02:20:38 PM »
"Huh... what are people talking about? Maybe I'll play a few rounds as Ghor post-nerf and find out."

Wow. Well, that was educational. I find myself in the odd position of advocating for a Ghor BUFF. Maybe it's just my RNG, but I couldn't use his power to any appreciable effect. Not once did a clump of more than 2 trees show up. I didn't realize he no longer gets even a single point discount for standing in a lone hex.

I hate to say it, but this is a classic example of Blizzard-balancing. Something was seen as too good (and it kinda was), so it gets nerfed so hard that it never again sees the light of day.

Give Ghor his Stealth back. As for his Talent:
a) change his power to "-1 magic discount when standing in ANY forest.
OR
b) at the start of his turn, if Ghor is in a forest, he gains magic points equal to the number of forests connected. (IE one forest = 1 MP, 4 chained forests = 4 MP. Etc etc.)

Kletian999

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Re: Ghor is still too overpowered, tone him down
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2017, 12:31:32 AM »
I like those ideas a lot Dragon.

Though to be fair, if "going nearly the whole game where your power does nothing beyond your control" is a mark of underpowered-ness, then we'd potentially need to buff Merc, Amber, Scarlet, and maybe Horace too.