Author Topic: Corruption Victory  (Read 2222 times)

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Algorithm

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Corruption Victory
« on: September 13, 2016, 04:35:21 AM »
So I've been doing a bit of thinking about Armello's victory conditions, because the Rot victory doesn't feel quite as resonant as the others.   Rot is supposed to be a corruptive influence, slowly turning the entire kingdom sour, yet if it's left unchecked all that happens is the King dies and a successor is appointed.  The best you can do is gain more rot than the King and kill him, but then what?

Rot and Wyld are diametrically opposed forces.  The Wyld crystallizes into Spirit Stones, which can purge the rot of the corrupted.  Shouldn't sufficient Rot be enough to purge the Wyld itself?

Hence, the Corruption Victory: Corrupt every Stone Circle before the King dies, and have the highest Rot.

For this victory condition to work, Stone Circles must be capable of being corrupted. I propose that if a corrupted entity enters a Stone Circle (and dies), that Circle becomes Broken.  Spirit Stones will no longer spawn there, and natural healing will no longer occur (though other bonuses still apply).  If a corrupted entity enters a Broken Circle and ends its turn there, the Circle becomes Corrupted.   Entering a Corrupted Circle grants +1 Rot and -1 Health to the non-corrupted, and +1 Rot and +1 Health to the corrupted.  Corrupted Circles can be restored to Broken Circles by spending Spirit Stones, but Broken Circles can never be repaired.

Obviously this would require a large patch to become feasible, and I really don't know what level of commitment the devs still have to this game (i.e. whether they've started building something else), but if there's an Armello 1.5 waiting in the wings, I hope they give this suggestion due consideration.

Darcy Smith

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Re: Corruption Victory
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2016, 04:07:24 PM »
Hey Algorithm!

Thanks for the detailed suggestion. We are definitely going ahead with v1.5 and we're still supporting Armello, but these larger, fundamentally-game-changing features are a little out of the question. We're really happy with how the Rot victory feels and the psychotic nature of a corrupted heroes' journey for the throne currently but subtle changes will occur over time.

Cheers,

<3 Darcy

Spikewerks

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Re: Corruption Victory
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2016, 02:34:41 PM »
I think a "game-changing" alteration to Rot victory is definitely out of the question, but I personally feel it's just simply not viable at all, when there are other victory conditions more readily available, easier to obtain, and easier to adapt to when original plans fall through.

A Rot victory is a Kingslayer victory, with an additional condition that is based chiefly on card draws, Bane placement, Declarations, and other events that are, for the most part, out of the player's control. Prestige is readily earned through many actions (that the player pursues), Kingslayer is actually easier to achieve the later in the game you are (with increased stats, more items, and the King's declining health), and Spirit Stones can be obtained from Quests and Dungeons (again, player-pursued), as well as spawning regularly. You can always adapt to one of these three other conditions, because they are all easily pursued by the player. A Rot victory does not have that luxury.

To achieve a Rot victory, you have to draw a lot of cards to find the Rot-increasing ones, meaning having high Wit, and plentiful resources or Battles/Peril encounters to use or Burn unwanted cards. You also need to achieve Corruption quickly, to gain the Corruption Quests, as well as have enough Stats to succeed at these. You also need a way to heal regularly, as Rot damage will keep sending you back to Clan Grounds if you don't stay topped-off, and you need sufficient combat ability (in particular defenses) to even get to the King, let alone kill him. All of this requires a lot of efficiency not at all called for by the other victory conditions, and should plans go awry (as they often will in a game like this), it is very difficult to fall back to a Plan B. Prestige is difficult to gain, when you have to resort to such tactics as using Banes to kill yourself for Rot gain, and fighting King's Guards that come after you. Kingslayer is what you're already shooting for in a sense, but high Rot that does not surpass the King's will only feed him several dice against you. Spirit Stones are mostly out of the question, as Stone Circles may very well kill you, and if you haven't been hunting them already, it's likely someone else already has that edge.

Rot victory is simply not viable; I believe that's what urged OP to make this thread to begin with. I share the frustration, but I do believe that the intentions behind the victory condition are sound. Some minor changes would do well for it, however, as even though not all victory conditions are equal, they should all be equally desirable for a player to pursue. The sheer complexity and difficulty behind achieving Rot victory makes it a very unlikely strategy for many.

dragoncrescent

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Re: Corruption Victory
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2016, 09:17:15 AM »
Wow! This is a REALLY cool idea, Algorithm! It definitely feels like the corrupted player is working to taint the well and assert their darker nature!

Even though Darcy has already described this kind of change as too fundamental to be implemented, it’s still fun to think about! I might try a model where the Corrupted player just has to enter the Circle and die for it to become Corrupted and Broken. Depending on how the map generates, there may be more Circles, or they may be further apart. It seems like a monumental task to (1) get over 5 points of rot, and (2) then spend your turns traversing to some far corner of the board, and (3)THEN spent a turn dying to start all over again. Especially when some Prestige do-gooder can later come along and completely ruin all that progress by spending the random Spirit Stone they picked up from a Dungeon.

Sniktch

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Re: Corruption Victory
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2016, 10:15:08 PM »
Honestly, I'd just like to see Rot actually give a benefit to the player in exchange for the costs it imposes.  At the moment, it's the worst path of all to take and the 'bonus' it gives you is either overkill (vs. Banes) or an active detriment to the player (more dice vs. King = more chance of feeding him dice via misses).  It gives either no or minimal benefit against the other players the vast majority of the time - at most, people will pick up 1-3 Rot from peril play or the like unless they're actively pursuing Rot.  3 dice does not a big difference make gearwise; this is why the Bane Blade is almost always overwritten immediately and even a full retinue doesn't generally get people to equip the War Horn.

Rot needs to get 'powered up' in some way so there's a REASON, a temptation leading players down that trail.  Not a path through a forest of kneecapping nailbats leading to a Russian roulette game.

L4g34s

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Re: Corruption Victory
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2016, 02:29:02 AM »
Feels like rot would be too easy then, but lets corrupt the map, a the end of every turn of a corrupted hero, all tiles around him and the tile he is on becomes Rotten, a Rotten tile will offer buff to banes, Perils on Rotten tiles will require 1 extra rot to be beaten, unless the hero on the peril is corrupted. Non corrupted heroes that die in Rotten tiles(no matter how they died) will recieve 1 rot. Creatures on Rotten tiles will get the “Aggressive” effect, every third rolled sword will pierce and every third rolled shield will miss. Finally, these Rotten tiles last until dawn, but if a corrupted creature get a kill in it they will last for another dusk and dawn.

lukesurl

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Re: Corruption Victory
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2016, 06:41:27 AM »
Perhaps when a Rot victory happens a couple of "cosmetic" things could happen prior to the end game screen to show the darkness that has been brought upon the Kingdom:

1) The game could switch immediately to night (if it weren't already).
2) Multiple Banes could spawn around the Palace.

As an even more dramatic representation, if the player's sprite were replaced by a Bane after they took the Palace, it would give the appearance that the Rot had finally twisted their physical form.

TenNoOkami

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Re: Corruption Victory
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2016, 12:10:52 AM »
i hear you, i always thought corruption victory to be just pretty much...a harder to accomplish Kingslayer. Its just not worth investing and commiting to it, there's too many cons...including other players casting wyld purifyer on you.

Being Infected is really just a detriment, i generally just avoid rot at all costs.

=An interesting buff to the Rot victory would be that could be viable without fundamentally changing the game, how about this:
***...Once you become corrupt since you get life for killing others, maybe if you're corrupt and kill the king you don't die even if he does inflict enough damage to kill you? ***

If the King kills you and lives you're back to spawn, but if you kill the King while being corrupt you win, regardless if he has more dice/rot then you or kills you in the proccess.

You know the feeling when you see a Magna, River, Thane, Barnaby or Zosha completing their final mission on the castle? The feeling when you see that Sana or Amber glowing blue walk into the castle and beat the peril thanks to her high spirit/wits? The feeling of 'well damn i need to stop them!'

Its not there when i see the rare Corrupt hero go into the castle...i generally try to get as much Prestige as i can and if i'm the leader of Prestige i literally just sit back and watch the show while sabotaging the others...a giant amount of dices the King builds one way or another(fed by corrupt hero having lower rot or via their misses if the Hero has more rot), and generally, the victor will be the prestige leader, as the leader of prestige i will literally help the Corrupt Hero get the attack on the king while even throwing some Ferals at them.

The rot victory is the most unpredicatable, less cost efficient, most burdening and just generally requires way too much of you without the proper rewards for such effort. Its like...if you want a REAL challenge try for it, but who wants a challenge when you can just blast the king off his shoes with a good 4 stones+strategist?

To make matters worse if you fail to gather enough rot, which is already luck dependant, you will hardly have a plan to fall back on since once you're corrupt, you can hardly get prestige anymore, stones on circles are out of the question unless you got 3 others before, and kingslaying is out as well since...well rot is basicly a kingslayer victory with a twist that makes it harder as said before.