Poll

Would you like to see a new rot system?

No, the rot system already implemented is good enough.
8 (36.4%)
Yes, the current rot system is too hard.
0 (0%)
Yes, I would like another way to earn rot other than cards and banes killing me over and over again.
9 (40.9%)
Both options 2 and 3.
5 (22.7%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Author Topic: New rot system.  (Read 3811 times)

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Callaghan

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New rot system.
« on: January 04, 2016, 11:31:53 AM »
It is no secrete to me that the current rot system is not only too hard to win, but the way that the player gets rot is just stupid. I do not feel evil when i realize that all I'm doing is dying from banes and hoping for a rot card. The only fun part about the rot ending is when you get to fight the king, but so far I have only seen somebody reach the king with a higher rot value one time because getting rot involves a lot of luck and patience. If this pole gets some votes for changing the way that you get rot then I will make another pole for what the new, updated rot system should be.

 My best idea is to have a fourth quest line where the player earns rot  through villainous acts, essentially the opposite of the spirit stone quests. Also, you should be able to start fire to any settlement you come across when you gain enough rot, and lose prestige for each of the rot quests you complete so that the player would feel evil.  All my ideas would not need to much work to add, and no new animations. Just some new dialogue for new quests, and the ability to burn down settlements. Leave any of your ideas in the reply's below on why the rot system is good already, how to change what we already have so that it is less hard, or what new system should be added to make the rot ending just as good as all the others.

Kletian999

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2016, 01:34:16 AM »
Rot quests already exist in the game, they just are only accessible post corruption because they aren't clan specific like other quests.  All in all though, more player choice over random card/event draws would be a great boon to Rot pathing.

My favorite idea would be to isolate all the rot items and spells into Trickery, but I know that interferes with the mechanic of rot cards "interfering" with players that want nothing to do with rot and find such cards in their hand.

Another idea would be a choice that appears during town capture to "Claim or Loot" the town.  The Loot option offering an immediate coin reward instead of an income and rot, and a terrorized status only other players/guards can remove (free prestige for your opponents).

What if Rot treasures could "randomely spawn" in dungeons on the map like spirit stones do.  That way they could be sought out or avoided rather than filling the treasure reward slots?


Callaghan

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2016, 09:10:16 AM »
For one, i did not know about the rot quests since I usually don't worry about questing when collecting rot, and having a rot quest line from the start would help fix that.

One thing about your first idea is that playing as Mercurio for a prestige win would be too hard if the trickery deck has all those rot cards. All rot cards being in the trickery deck would eliminate the luck when hoping for a rot card, but could be easily overpowered if someone have 6 wit, gaining 4 rot in one turn if they happen to be lucky.

Moving onto your second idea, a claim or loot system would be a very cool thing that could be added to the game. Of coarse you would lose prestige when doing either of these, but someone who is glowing with purple and acting more evil than the king should not be able to win a prestige victory anyways. Overall this is a great idea that I would really to see in Armello.

For your last point, the rot cards where the player gains one rot combined with rot randomly spawning, rot quests, burning down settlements, and *sigh* getting killed by banes to gain rot this ending would be over powered.

 I will propose to take out gaining rot by dying from banes completely because you don't feel evil when a bane kills you over and over again, the player feels like a loser. Randomly spawning rot would become overpowered with the rot cards already in place. Burning down settlements should gain you rot, but also take away one health or more depending on your luck, where there is a coin flipping above your head similar to dungeons to see how hard the village resistance was to you burning it down. If this was not in place the player would just camp at settlements so that heroes could save them, and then rot players could gain another rot. I believe that rot quests wouldn't be overpowered from the start of the game, because you would lose one prestige for each rot quest, and you would have to successfully take the risk to gain any rot in the first place (similar to spirit stone quests).

dragoncrescent

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2016, 12:48:16 PM »
You know, I've never really considered Rot all that hard to accumulate. I've once gained 4 rot in a single turn via Dark Influence/Plague. The really difficult thing about Rot Victories is getting into the palace and actually doing battle with the King. Assuming you out-rot him, you will get a large handful of bonus dice, which are then promptly returned to the King when they miss. Losing 1 HP every morning doesn't do you any favors, either...

I guess what I'm saying is that if you want to be a Rotlord, the best strategy at the moment is really just to focus on spellcasting. Thematically, it's not as accurate as going out and consciously doing evil things. I'll agree with that point.

Another idea would be a choice that appears during town capture to "Claim or Loot" the town.  The Loot option offering an immediate coin reward instead of an income and rot, and a terrorized status only other players/guards can remove (free prestige for your opponents).

Now THIS is a cool idea... O_O

Kletian999

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2016, 04:27:21 AM »
I've been so divorced from the trickery deck, I guess  I forget some characters try to use it regularly. 

I think the Bane's infecting what they kill to be a very important threat.  But maybe instead of repeat suicides, Banes can only raise to you to 1 rot with deaths.  This would make purity paths less hopeless when Banes stack on you early, and remove the need to suicide.   Without the 2-5 gain from Banes, adding another system like town raising or visable cursed treasures would balance the deficit.


Callaghan

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2016, 02:40:21 PM »
Your bane solution is very good,  so that rot doesn't involve suicide but still keeps the threat for people trying to completely avoid any rot.

Mathmage530

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2016, 12:11:53 PM »
In another thread, I suggested that dying (in combat) on  a swamp increases rot.

Alternatively: Killing a player in a stone circle increases rot?

betrunkenaffe

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2016, 02:56:25 PM »
I basically spent all day today trying to get a rot victory, the soonest I could get above the king in rot was in the evening with 4 hearts left, I spent the next 2 days trying to get into the palace (no time to finish the remaining quest for easy access) and then finally got to swing at the king with something like 16 dice and proceeded to die since I rolled 1 successful defense (+2 from items). Going for rot victory is far too difficult, you basically spend all your time working on it and then it comes down to "will the extra dice he gets off my misses kill me?" in the final fight.

Going from 5 and up is fine currently but getting from 0-5 without repeatedly suiciding requires exceptionally lucky card draws. I really liked the idea of spirit stones being burned to gain rot since unless you are going for that victory, it is more about denial grabs than anything else.

dragoncrescent

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2016, 03:08:37 PM »
A lot of the King's absorbed rolls can be mitigated with proper planning. If you were lucky enough to draw Royal Shield, the King is as good as dead. You can also burn cards to get specific dice rolls, or even just deny him the satisfaction of stealing your missed rolls. I've seen a few human players use Aflame on themselves during a night attack. This way, even if you roll a miss and the King gets your dice, you still get a second chance. Of course, this could just result in you feeding the beast, but it's a calculated risk. Additionally, you want to attack the king with some decent defenses. Perhaps a good number of shields, or Barkskin so you can just soak the ravaging he's about to give you.

One of the cheapest tactics in the game (besides Hot Rot Wine and Strategist) is to fight the King with the Squire follower equipped. In this case, you can LET the King go wild on you and focus purely on offense - even if he kills you, the Squire will keep you safe. Not sure if that still counts as a Rot victory, though...

Kletian999

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2016, 11:32:20 PM »
It does.  The squire makes you "win" doublekill battles.

betrunkenaffe

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2016, 01:51:21 PM »
I've literally stopped trying Rot victories since they are nigh on impossible, you have to push 100% of your efforts towards them (or not be trying and get screwed into Rot 5) and then pull very specific cards to prevent the king from auto killing you when you actually challenge him. If I ever get a Rot victory, it will be a fluke, not a strategic choice.

Misteuraix

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2016, 04:52:30 PM »
I have some ideas to enhance the gameplay and rot system:

-When you do a quest giving rot or an equipment/mercenary with rot: +10% success every 2 rot points you have, max +30%

-When you choose quest, a 4th quest with rot item/mercenary would be available for everybody

-You should be able to sacrifice a spirit stone to either:
     *Change your quests in quest selection
     *Drop your hand and draw the same number of cards
     *Add +20% succes while questing
     *Add 2 dices during a fight

NB: i like the idea of terrorizing colonies to gain rot

EDIT:
In my opinion, the biggest problem is there's no real way to be corrupted other than suicide to bane and/or be lucky with cards and quests, as once corrupted you can kill banes to get rot. There should be a way to choose the rot path, to get rot cards/equipment easier (perhaps by sacrificing life).
The highest problem is balance. Btw, with the actual system, you can be corrupted and prestige champ at the same time, and imo it shouldn't. I think that if the rot system is changed, it should also give a malus in prestige. Once you're corrupted, you lose prestige when you gain rot, or you give rot to other heroes when you kill them instead of gaining prestige.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 02:09:07 AM by Misteuraix »

Snacuum

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2016, 12:05:10 AM »
Quote
"will the extra dice he gets off my misses kill me?"

This happens now? Oh man I've been out of the loop for so long.

Elvendan

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2016, 07:02:36 PM »
I think that current system is okay.
I got a 6-day rot win with Sana (!). King had 5 rot, I had 6, so it was easy to defeat him.

Kazul

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Re: New rot system.
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2016, 12:58:43 AM »
The idea to give you the option to terrorize the settlement instead of claiming it is an amazing idea.
Along with dying in a swamp you get plagued +1 rot.
Being able to get rot quests right from the beginning like the spirit stones.

These 3 should definitely be a thing.