Author Topic: Plans for AI?  (Read 2177 times)

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Bormac

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Plans for AI?
« on: September 22, 2015, 11:33:15 AM »
I'm just wondering if there is going to be further development on the AI side of things. As opposed to the pvp side.
The AI is alright, but has a tendency to kill itself and be highly aggressive. (Even non combat heros like Sana). And after a certain point they drop everything to beeline for the king. (evening when he has 3 hp, from what I have observed)
I'm just wondering if any more I will be put into the AI because it feels really A at the moment, to put it jokingly.
I really enjoy playing the game, pvp and vs AI but I would enjoy more of a challenge and skill on the computers part. Especially since players in multiplayer games have a tendency to quit when things aren't going their way.

Bormac

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Re: Plans for AI?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2015, 11:57:59 AM »
Further feedback, from a friend I was discussing this with.
Part of the problem with the AI seems to stem from the fact that, while they might not, they all SEEM to be using the same scripts. So you wind up with situations like Sana attacking into people she can't hope to beat because she thinks she is Brun. Or, at least as strong as Brun. They all have one set of scripts they all share and it kind of muddies things down since the game can be played in so many ways.

He proposes something like this:
"An open API for the AI. Something that can take in a data structure of the game's state, and spit out the action information for the character. Have an AI contest, make an effort to get colleges involved. You could even have an "AI League" for Armello"

More minds throwing their collective thought power at this situation might help resolve it, or at least give you guys something to work with in making a better AI system yourself. : >
Just a thought, I hope it helps you.

Echo

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Re: Plans for AI?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2015, 10:40:46 PM »
I had a game recently where Sana just went around in circles each turn, literally. Also often the AI does maneuvers where it goes in a Z shape, wasting 1AP in the process. And as said, 3 days to king's death they all storm the castle.

Kletian999

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Re: Plans for AI?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2015, 11:08:52 PM »
The AI tends to have lousy choices for Perils as well.  I used expendables twice on on tile, and the AI walked around it to hit the full strength peril next to it.  Seeing them try to break the Peril when they only have 3 dice is also somewhat embarrassing.

Bormac

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Re: Plans for AI?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2015, 10:22:54 AM »
That is true, they do have a tendency to kill themselves with perils, but at the same time I've seen them ace the castle perils when they had practically no dice related to the peril. They od that pretty reliably too, almost like cheating!
Not sure if it is or not but I'd hate for the game to go the route of more difficulty = cheaty ai instead of better AI.
But I have no idea if that is the case.

Vryl

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Re: Plans for AI?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2015, 12:54:22 AM »
That is true, they do have a tendency to kill themselves with perils, but at the same time I've seen them ace the castle perils when they had practically no dice related to the peril. They od that pretty reliably too, almost like cheating!

I've seen this myself.  I wish I could go after a four-die peril with four dice and win 2/3 of the time, too.

As for suicidal Sana, that's been a problem for a long time.  I figure it's because she relies almost totally on drawing good spell cards, so when she doesn't have any good spells to cast she just assaults someone on the basis that she might get a point of prestige while if she did nothing she'll certainly lose.  It could be worse - the time I played her to win the achievement, I picked up a couple of points of spirit from quests and then went straight for the castle.  If the AI was acting logically it would probably do the same thing, since death doesn't matter much to her while if she gets lucky she wins.

Kletian999

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Re: Plans for AI?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2015, 01:58:51 AM »
Too often the AI doesn't finish it's questline, avoiding finishing quests to attack players or taking towns.

Echo

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Re: Plans for AI?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2015, 09:33:35 AM »
That is true, they do have a tendency to kill themselves with perils, but at the same time I've seen them ace the castle perils when they had practically no dice related to the peril. They od that pretty reliably too, almost like cheating!
Not sure if it is or not but I'd hate for the game to go the route of more difficulty = cheaty ai instead of better AI.
But I have no idea if that is the case.

The AI IS cheating.
Early Access had the option in single player to have a quick resolution of AI battles/perils which resulted in the game deciding on the win or lose without variance. Basically if the AI goes into a 5 symbol peril with 3 dice, they come out as a winner.
But if that function was off, the AI had no chance to cheat because you see what they roll and wont see impossible rolls succeed obviously.
Wish that option was back.

I just dislike it in games where I dont see how AI achieves something. I'm often skeptical that their success is possible. Best example are the games in STALKER series where faction wars are going "live" in the world. I leave a stalker base and next thing I know they're nailed by bandits. I have no idea how that was possible because the nearest bandit camp is miles off, then realize the game spawns them in the middle of the base. Moral of the story: if it's off screen, it's BS.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 09:41:49 AM by Echo »

Kletian999

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Re: Plans for AI?
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2015, 10:37:35 AM »
It's not cheating, the palace perils can be beaten with 3 dice since Wyld/Rot both matches and explodes.  Also, they might have the Time bonus to their dice.

Echo

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Re: Plans for AI?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2015, 03:26:06 AM »
It's not cheating, the palace perils can be beaten with 3 dice since Wyld/Rot both matches and explodes.  Also, they might have the Time bonus to their dice.
I know the dice explosion but regardless if you were to spectate the dice roll 1 of 10 would succeed where as not seeing it 1 of 10 fails.

Kletian999

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Re: Plans for AI?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2015, 03:32:09 AM »
I disagree.  There is no incentive for LoG to program an alternate resolution system to help the AI cheat- it's extra work on top of their normal dice code and goes against their spirit of making a fair competitive game.  I have seen AI smash faces against the Peril many times in failure.  You forget also that the AI can and does burn cards so they might have had a good hand to succeed with.

Bormac

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Re: Plans for AI?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2015, 03:03:58 PM »
Only Wyld, or Rot explode, you can't have both explode. And even so that is an astounding amount of luck for them to be able to ace those, so consistently.

Anyway, as for cheating. I don't want them to cheat. I want them to not cheat. Play smarter.  If it is too much work, well, I'm sure that SOME people in the community would like to at least try to improve the game. An attempt is better than no attempts. Right?
If anyone has that kind of coding knowledge anyway, I can't imagine no one does. But this is all speculative.

All I'd really like is for the AI to play more intelligently and coherently for what character they have selected. Would make the single player aspect (Which is pretty good already) a dozen times better.