Author Topic: 1st Turn Imbalance  (Read 982 times)

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Shiroe

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1st Turn Imbalance
« on: June 17, 2015, 12:58:47 PM »
Aloha Armello,

Been playing off and on since my super long Rot Mechanic Rant....and been trying to restrain how much I love playing this game and all the things I am wondering about from the developers. But I wanted to bring this topic up because I think it should be addressed in some way.

1st turn imbalance:

On the first turn, every character begins in their clan grounds, from which they cannot be targeted nor target any other players until they take their first step out. Due to this system, the person who goes last in the morning has a slight advantage over every other player. As they are immune during every other player turn and they are also immune during their active turn, the last turn player has complete access to target-cast cards on any other player. Since magic is refreshed every night, there is  a very small (maybe 5 frame window) for anyone to cast a spell on player 4 before nightfall hits without wasting their magic from turn 1.  This means that Player 4 is effectively immune for the entire 1st round while every other player is exposed by round 4 of turn 1 to any player.

On the other hand, the person who plays first doesn't seem to get any direct benefit aside from prestige lead if they manage to get to their quest first. This benefit is dependent on the other players not being able to prevent the prestige gain. The benefit the last turn player gets is generated by the game mechanics of round 1.

Counterpoint:
  • Every other player could target the forest/plains/swamps/dungeons/towns with spells and perils in front of player 4 before they can make it out of their base, thereby eliminating their 1st turn immunity, and player 4 is unable to counter with cards until they make it out of their base.
While this is true, it means the only cards available to counter player 4 is perils that are specifically designed for the type of land player 4 will traverse. Any targeted spell or peril card is still unusable on player 4, meaning they have immunity to a large portion of the cards available to players (maybe 25% of cards? haven't actually done the math on how many can be targeted). On the other hand, player 4 can effectively use any card on their first turn to any player. So I still think there is an imbalance

Possible Solution:
Not sure if this is design, but it seems that Player 4 has the advantage on turn 1. I was wondering if, to balance out the first morning turn, that every player and the 2 spots immediately in front of the clan grounds are immune to targeted spells and effects until the start of the 1st night. Many card games use this mechanic by making some action unavailable to players until one full round has expired. Just wondering if Armello could benefit from some kind of restriction as well for the 1st morning turn.

Dunno, just some thoughts. Love the game still ^_^

Mahalo,
Former Hdwgdrzzt, current Shiroe

P.S. Once I get my new computer, I hope to make some Armello you-tube videos and Twitch-Streams. let me know if you'd like to be a part of them.

Kletian999

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Re: 1st Turn Imbalance
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2015, 10:49:33 PM »
Funny, I had a similar discussion in how Player 1's town holdings can be rendered completely worthless, while player 4 any towns taken at night are ensured money (and this phenomenon lasts all game). 

The "safe in clan grounds" effect is mitigated because few players have spirit enough to reach heroes on the first turn- most trickeries are land targeted.  Also, since the start hand is randomized, there's a chance you won't have spells to cast.

The "you have 2 seconds to cast spells on player 4" is definitely a tricky problem.  I've pulled it off a few times  but in a real life game it wouldn't be hard to do this.  Maybe "card immunity" should go away when you have 0 AP?

Ultimately, we have to consider that if 2 players did the exact same moves, barring interference from luck or cards, the first player would win.  Whether it's prestige or kingkilling, being first matters.
 

Dunkha

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Re: 1st Turn Imbalance
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2015, 04:48:44 AM »
That 1st turn immunity doesn't really matter that much because the players are so far from each other that they can't target anyone with their spells anyway (most of the time).