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Armello => Armello Development => Topic started by: Trent Kusters on June 30, 2016, 05:46:26 PM

Title: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Trent Kusters on June 30, 2016, 05:46:26 PM
This post is relevant to the features introduced in v1.4 Battle Tides. For all of the details, see the master post here (http://leagueofgeeks.com/forums/index.php?topic=2495.0).
(http://i.imgur.com/UxgxdH2.png)

We’ve been secretly watching you all. That’s right. Keeping tabs, tracking all the things you say, who you talk to, all of it! Mwuhahahaaaa! MWAHAHHAAA!

*ahem!* Um, okay, errr, I am obviously just talking about the fact that we’ve had analytics hooked up to our chat system for a while now. I’ve also been reading all your great recommendations from this post here (http://steamcommunity.com/app/290340/discussions/0/458606248626727389/) and jotting them down. So with those two things already in the pipeline, having to write chat strings for the upcoming Heroes was the perfect excuse to overhaul the chat system.

Here’s a handy little infographic that illustrates which chat phrases have been most popular.

(http://i.imgur.com/2Q8vj7C.png)

Looking at the above, you can see that there was definitely room to remove a few under-performing phrases and implement some of your most requested chat features! So you can now do things like address Heroes specifically to request truces, or even threaten them (eek!). We’ve also expanded the way you can respond to great plays or cool moments in game with new exclamations, and you can even say farewell (in character) for a more apt sign off at the end of each epic Armello journey... or kill.

For those of you who have been hanging out with us for a while now, it’ll come as no surprise that Armello’s chat system is close to my heart. I head up our writing efforts around here, but I also care deeply about the type of community we foster in everything we do. Providing you all with a way to interact in-game that is free from toxic behaviour, conquers language barriers, and all whilst remaining within character is something I’ve always been proud of, but being able to extend and improve that with your assistance is a step above!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/l46CChknVNKJeduE0/giphy.gif)

The new chat strings have proven super popular with both the testing crew and our (deadly) here in the studio, so I’m very keen to see this one out in the wild!

Enjoy!

<3 Trent
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Biologist on July 04, 2016, 10:43:08 PM
Blizzard should take notes. You guys actually keep improving the emote-based chat system. We've gotten expanded and revamped emotes that meaningfully enhance the system. What did Hearthstone players get? A slap on the wrist and a Care-Bear style substitution of a sarcastic, slightly useful emote with a slightly less sarcastic, vastly less useful emote.

I kid, of course. Mostly. But still, job well done LoG.
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Loremaster on July 05, 2016, 12:02:45 AM
Shame. "Watch" for "Rot" and "Prestige" were my favourite lines, along with "Proclaim" "Prestige". Also, Barnaby's "Stay away" was sounding funny, having him scream "Go away! No!" before ultimately meeting his demise by Fighter Zosha's blade.

But anyway, new quote lines will be nice addition.
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Biologist on July 05, 2016, 12:33:18 AM
Shame. "Watch" for "Rot" and "Prestige" were my favourite lines, along with "Proclaim" "Prestige". Also, Barnaby's "Stay away" was sounding funny, having him scream "Go away! No!" before ultimately meeting his demise by Fighter Zosha's blade.

But anyway, new quote lines will be nice addition.

Fate is unkind.  ;)

I was actually a bit surprised by the results myself; I've used the Proclaim and Watch options quite a bit, though usually in an ironic fashion.
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Falkner on July 05, 2016, 08:47:12 AM
And what was done about the ambiguous lines?
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Sandling on July 05, 2016, 09:03:06 AM
To be fair - I think the Watch and Proclaim lines are lower in percentage because they were overlapping a bit too much, causing the total to seem lower (People were likely choosing one of them, but not both simultaneously because it would seem spammy) - I do think there was a global desire for people to communicate about the victory conditions in some way or another though.

I'm not sure if any of the new options reflect the option to emote about the victory conditions, else I'd really like to request putting something in again for a future patch myself - this time bundled as one option!
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: RosaryEdge on July 05, 2016, 10:45:34 AM
Interesting addition. Adds more character to each of them. I used to have problem trying to convey thoughts, but the words that come out of them is different from what I wanted, and ended up threatening other players. Then I have to followed up with a "sorry",  but it always made the situation worst and awkward.  :o... On the other hand, can't wait to test all of them!
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Trent Kusters on July 05, 2016, 02:31:25 PM
Glad to see you're excited! To respond to a couple of comments:

We did do a pass on some ambiguous lines, but we also left some as they are when the ambiguity of the line directly reflects and plays into the character of that Hero. The key example being Mercurio's 'Thanks'. "I will remember that." Is the perfect thank you for Mercurio and players who are aware of this line can use it in multiple different contexts - one of the main goals for each string.

The goal here is to give you all a toolbox with which to express yourself within the role of the Hero you're playing. Having some lines lean a little more into the character and edge on the ambiguous side is part of that.

As for Watch and Proclaim, we discussed this at length and Proclaim in particular was one that was very hard to say goodbye to. However, the statistics are King; folks just weren't using those chat strings enough to warrant their survival. We wanted to give some other highly requested strings in there to see how they performed. Initial statistics from internal matches and our testing community show that we've made the right call here.

As always, with everything we do, we'll be keeping an eye on these and seeing how they perform. In the meantime, dive in when v1.4 drops and try 'em out. There's a lot of cool stuff to discover across all the Heroes.


<3 Trent   
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: marsgreekgod on July 05, 2016, 07:03:10 PM
I really loved the last to chat options. they where a lot of fun.

I also loved telling people to watch out for me.

Brun: Face Brun!
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Kletian999 on July 05, 2016, 11:13:56 PM
Proclaims were always full of flavor, but were often a strategic handicap since unless you were like Ozymandias from Watchmen, they'd give people the chance to thwart you. 

Even if you weren't afraid of that (I liked using them as taunts because they were so flavorful) they would tend to show at the end of the game.  Since not every game "finishes" because of DCs or whatnot, that weighs even more heavily for the greetings and against end game play.
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Sandling on July 06, 2016, 01:08:29 AM
Would it perhaps be an idea if the characters would proclaim something in chat automatically upon meeting specific winning-condition requirements? - I just feel sad a little bit of their personality got stripped out with the  Watch For and Proclaim functions removed.


For instance, upon acquiring the 4th Spirit Stone, a character would automatically speak in chat with their previous 'Watch For - Spirit Stone' line
The same would happen when acquiring enough rot that one becomes corrupted, a high number of prestige (say 10), and a pre-combat message attacking the king.   - I don't think anyone would ever mind it if the characters would have these lines proclaimed ones on automation.

Similarly, they could have an automated victory (Proclaim) message based on their winning condition during the victory screen. This way we can still have those nice personal flavoured messages without having them included in the chat menu!
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: marsgreekgod on July 06, 2016, 03:27:10 AM
Would it perhaps be an idea if the characters would proclaim something in chat automatically upon meeting specific winning-condition requirements? - I just feel sad a little bit of their personality got stripped out with the  Watch For and Proclaim functions removed.


For instance, upon acquiring the 4th Spirit Stone, a character would automatically speak in chat with their previous 'Watch For - Spirit Stone' line
The same would happen when acquiring enough rot that one becomes corrupted, a high number of prestige (say 10), and a pre-combat message attacking the king.   - I don't think anyone would ever mind it if the characters would have these lines proclaimed ones on automation.

Similarly, they could have an automated victory (Proclaim) message based on their winning condition during the victory screen. This way we can still have those nice personal flavoured messages without having them included in the chat menu!

I like that idea, I'm not sure it would work but it's very worth testing

the automatic victory messege would be fun.

bonus points if everyone has one for each win, and other people say lose quotes
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Sandling on July 06, 2016, 01:09:30 PM
Would it perhaps be an idea if the characters would proclaim something in chat automatically upon meeting specific winning-condition requirements? - I just feel sad a little bit of their personality got stripped out with the  Watch For and Proclaim functions removed.


For instance, upon acquiring the 4th Spirit Stone, a character would automatically speak in chat with their previous 'Watch For - Spirit Stone' line
The same would happen when acquiring enough rot that one becomes corrupted, a high number of prestige (say 10), and a pre-combat message attacking the king.   - I don't think anyone would ever mind it if the characters would have these lines proclaimed ones on automation.

Similarly, they could have an automated victory (Proclaim) message based on their winning condition during the victory screen. This way we can still have those nice personal flavoured messages without having them included in the chat menu!

I like that idea, I'm not sure it would work but it's very worth testing

the automatic victory messege would be fun.

bonus points if everyone has one for each win, and other people say lose quotes

The more I think about it, they do already have an automated emote-RP session in play too, for when the Stranger meets the King for instance!

So my own idea for automated mid-game messages would be:

- Going For Rot Declaration! [Upon becoming corrupted]
- Going For Spirit Stone Declaration! [Upon collecting the 4th Spirit Stone]
- Going For Prestige Decleration [Upon having the most prestige at the beginning the last Night)
- Going for Kingslayer Declaration! [Attacking the king when not corrupted or carrying 4 Spirit Stones] (Short pause before the attack begins for players to read the message, just like the Stranger/King conversation)

Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Bartimeus on July 06, 2016, 06:01:19 PM
Hello, i am not very good in English so i  can rewrite if needed.

I don't know why you remove this strings. Maybe you misunderstood your own statistics. Why do you have 4,7% "look out for" and 5,4% "go for"? Because they have average the same meaning , so half the time we use "look out for" , and half the time "go for" for saying the same thing. So, you don't have one of the less used string with 5% but one of the most used with 11,1%!!!! So, you need to remove only one of this 2 strings .
It's an other problem with proclaim, you can say "i am winning" only if you are winning. But how many players are about to win: 1 or 2 , and not 4. So Only 1 or 2 can "proclaim", so your have not 3,9 % but 3,9*4% = 15.6%. And you will not "proclaim" at the beginning of the game.

So in conclusion you don't remove the less used phrases at all. And you remove the more useful strings. The other strings are less useful. You say "hi hi hi" or "sorry" when you have nothing to say and " hello" and "sorry" to be polite.

Other phrases are like "smileys", they are fun ,but they are here to say " i am happy"  "i am sad"  " i am angry"  "the sky is blue". It's interesting but you can't use only that to interact with people, you can't really communicate with that: ;) :D ;D :P :-X :-\ :-* :'( .
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Wessolf27 on July 06, 2016, 07:59:31 PM
Hello, i am not very good in English so i  can rewrite if needed.

I don't know why you remove this strings. Maybe you misunderstood your own statistics. Why do you have 4,7% "look out for" and 5,4% "go for"? Because they have average the same meaning , so half the time we use "look out for" , and half the time "go for" for saying the same thing. So, you don't have one of the less used string with 5% but one of the most used with 11,1%!!!! So, you need to remove only one of this 2 strings .
It's an other problem with proclaim, you can say "i am winning" only if you are winning. But how many players are about to win: 1 or 2 , and not 4. So Only 1 or 2 can "proclaim", so your have not 3,9 % but 3,9*4% = 15.6%. And you will not "proclaim" at the beginning of the game.

So in conclusion you don't remove the less used phrases at all. And you remove the more useful strings. The other strings are less useful. You say "hi hi hi" or "sorry" when you have nothing to say and " hello" and "sorry" to be polite.

Other phrases are like "smileys", they are fun ,but they are here to say " i am happy"  "i am sad"  " i am angry"  "the sky is blue". It's interesting but you can't use only that to interact with people, you can't really communicate with that: ;) :D ;D :P :-X :-\ :-* :'( .

It seems like they actually kept "Go For" for the new chat function, judging from the little GIF animation on the bottom of their post. So you don't have to worry about that one.

Other than that though, I would agree with Auto-emotes if ever the players start to achieve their victory conditions, and when they would win. That'd be nice :) Maybe a little bonus with River if she arrives at the castle with the king at one health remaining, where she'd probably proclaim the game more or less over.

Though yeah, it'd be nice if players can still use their emotes to taunt others if they wish.
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Bartimeus on July 06, 2016, 11:02:34 PM
And why not your Auto-emote idea between characters.

Guess: who is speaking? :

I)
-Hey!! Do you really want to use bow and arrow against an armor? Hooo, so sweet!!!
-Honey, I can see two beautifull ears outside this armor.
-Not the ears!!! It's not fair!!!

II)
-I can see you!!!

-Of course, you can see me, I am right in front off you.

III)
-peek-a-boo!!

-Haaaa!!!.......it's you!!  Never do that again!!!!

-I promise

-You said that the last time. And I thought you were sincere.

-You are right

-So?

-So, you thaught me to lie, and you thaught me well.

IV)
-Stop acting like a child.

-But i am a  child.

-That's not an excuse.


I)Barnaby and Rive
II)Barnaby and Zosha
III)Zosha and Mercurio
IV)Amber and Barnaby
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: The Binary Son on July 07, 2016, 12:22:12 PM
"The people call my name."
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Salvatos on July 07, 2016, 12:26:13 PM
We did do a pass on some ambiguous lines, but we also left some as they are when the ambiguity of the line directly reflects and plays into the character of that Hero. The key example being Mercurio's 'Thanks'. "I will remember that." Is the perfect thank you for Mercurio and players who are aware of this line can use it in multiple different contexts - one of the main goals for each string.

The goal here is to give you all a toolbox with which to express yourself within the role of the Hero you're playing. Having some lines lean a little more into the character and edge on the ambiguous side is part of that.
I feel like you're lumping two things together here. You're absolutely right that Mercurio's line is flavorful and that its ambiguity can serve several purposes, but the fact that he doesn't say what the emote menu says creates confusion rather than add value. It does the opposite of helping us express ourselves by twisting our choice of words. I feel it would be better if the menu showed what your character will actually say when you press the button. See the bold part above? In my opinion there shouldn't have to be any guessing when choosing what we say to others.
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Wessolf27 on July 07, 2016, 02:13:29 PM

I feel like you're lumping two things together here. You're absolutely right that Mercurio's line is flavorful and that its ambiguity can serve several purposes, but the fact that he doesn't say what the emote menu says creates confusion rather than add value. It does the opposite of helping us express ourselves by twisting our choice of words. I feel it would be better if the menu showed what your character will actually say when you press the button. See the bold part above? In my opinion there shouldn't have to be any guessing when choosing what we say to others.

Actually, I agree. It'd be nice to have something like a small pop-up or hover to see what our characters have to say, like it could show up as being a faded out version that floats next to one's cursor.

There's been one too many times I've played Mercurio or Thane and said something I didn't mean to say ^_^;

Edit: I love how Threat > "your character" gives a unique emote :D
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Trent Kusters on July 08, 2016, 09:14:17 PM
Automated shout-outs for the Proclaim phrases is a very interesting idea. Hmmm... let me think on that one. <3
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Biologist on July 09, 2016, 12:24:02 AM
I love how Threat > "your character" gives a unique emote :D

I think all three of the player-targeted emotes now do that. I particularly like Zosha's "Truce > Zosha" emote: "I don't work well with partners. They tend to die. A lot." Also her new "Farewell" emote is a perfect taunt when you've just taken down an opponent.
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Wessolf27 on July 09, 2016, 02:43:20 AM
I love how Threat > "your character" gives a unique emote :D

I think all three of the player-targeted emotes now do that. I particularly like Zosha's "Truce > Zosha" emote: "I don't work well with partners. They tend to die. A lot." Also her new "Farewell" emote is a perfect taunt when you've just taken down an opponent.

That. Is. Absolutely. Beautiful.

Man, I love the new emotes, but still standing by the idea of having a way to see what your character's gonna say before you say it, else you end up making some pretty embarrassing word choices... (Trying to apologize, and ending up taunting someone just feels embarrassing as Barnaby... though I really should've seen that considering I play him a lot...)
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Biologist on July 10, 2016, 03:18:18 PM
I love how Threat > "your character" gives a unique emote :D

I think all three of the player-targeted emotes now do that. I particularly like Zosha's "Truce > Zosha" emote: "I don't work well with partners. They tend to die. A lot." Also her new "Farewell" emote is a perfect taunt when you've just taken down an opponent.

That. Is. Absolutely. Beautiful.

Man, I love the new emotes, but still standing by the idea of having a way to see what your character's gonna say before you say it, else you end up making some pretty embarrassing word choices... (Trying to apologize, and ending up taunting someone just feels embarrassing as Barnaby... though I really should've seen that considering I play him a lot...)

I just found out what River's new "Mercy" ("Stay away") emote is:

"Keep back, or I'll put one in your knee!"

I see what you did there, LoG.
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: robskylor on July 13, 2016, 01:29:58 PM
Hello, fairly new to the game and loving it for the last couple months. I see where you're coming from  on the "numbers are King" idea, but I just want to offer a slightly different perspective. Number's mostly king, but with some considerations.

Specifically, "Watch for", "Go for", or "Look out for". Granted they were only used 4.0%, 5.4%, and 4.7% of the time compared to other phrases, but it's always not the quantity something is used, but the quality. For instance "Laugh" was used the most at 17.3%, I myself use it repeatedly in the course of a game, primarily because this game puts a huge smile on my face and little things in it make me giggle. I also use "Sorry" and "Hello" quite a bit too. But that's just banter, when I say "Watch for", "Go for", or "Look out for" I mean business. There are often games where I would only use a phrase once or twice, because once I've gotten across the threat to the players, there's no need to beat them over the head with it. But GETTING that threat across to the other players is incredibly important.

I'm generally not an overly wordy person but twice now someone won with crystals and I had no way to convey that threat to my fellow players. I'm okay with losing, but a lack of ability to communicate basic concepts is frustrating for this old lifelong board game player. Really all I'm suggesting is a way to convey a paticular kind of victory as a threat. I can then use the threaten chat command to convey who is the threat (Including myself if I'm feeling cocky :)

Thanks for taking the time to read this
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: krysh on September 02, 2016, 01:29:36 AM
I'm having so much fun with the new emotes. I played a game with my friends yesterday and Zosha was dangerously close to me so my River said: "We need not fight for now, Zosha." When her turn ended, I used the Oops emote which said: "I didn't mean that" followed by "Hah." followed by me completely and utterly destroying Zosha.

It's even more fun when you memorize what your character is going to say.

However I too miss the old Proclaim and Watch for emotes.
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Across-The-Board on September 02, 2016, 06:18:35 AM
However I too miss the old Proclaim and Watch for emotes.

As childish as it may be I had a lot of fun with Ambers Proclaim spirit stones emote.

*Beats up male character*
"Those stones are easy to find"
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: krysh on September 08, 2016, 09:40:02 PM
So I just played 2 games as Ghor last night and I couldn't believe his "Bad luck" emote. He says: "Bad luck, or you're just stupid".

First of all, it doesn't seem to match Ghor's personality since all the other emotes make him sound dumb and afraid (Oh.. Hullo, Teeheehee, Uh-Oh, Whooooaaaahhh and so on.)

Second, I sincerely felt sorry for my friend who failed and then insulted her by calling her stupid unknowingly.

I understand some of the heroes' emotes are sometimes daring, but nothing should be as insulting as this. I won't be using this emote from now on while playing Ghor. I hope I'm not the only one who feels this way and it will be addressed.
Title: Re: v1.4 Chat System Overhaul Details!
Post by: Kletian999 on September 09, 2016, 01:44:53 AM
I agree Ghor's emotes are one of his Many problems.